Forum Activity for @john-henry

Wow ! Every now and again this site throws me a 'curved ball', and I worry about whether I am clever enough to be here ! Four wartime years of school in England left huge holes in some of my early educational basics, and I have been playing catchup ever since, as evidenced by my shortcomings on this darned machine !!! The forgoing makes interesting reading tho, and back to the original premiss, I am with Ken in that my dulcimers are 'it' rather than 'he or she' . If I talk of them then it would be my 'Baritone', my 'English Walnut', my 'TMB', the 'Purpleheart', or my 'Virginia' (whoops, exception to the rule there, tho' with good reason !) Just once did I make the connection between dulcimers and gender ! At the start of a performance at our church where the audience in the main had never heard or seen such an instrument, I made the mistake of holding an hourglass in one hand and a teardrop in the other and jocularly liking them to progressive stages in the female form. Yes, my wife was in the audience !!!

I repeat, definately 'it' for me !

JohnH

(how could anyone resist not referring to 'my sweet little Ginger', Carrie?)

Well when one sits on MY lap and I gently rub oil along all those curves, in and around all those nooks, crannies, orifaces ... believe me .. it's a SHE !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for all your answers and different opinions! I appreciate all of them and some really made me laugh! It was a serious question but one should not take that too seriously!

If you look at it from a statistical point of view, it is true that in the German language many musical instruments are regarded as being feminine (trumpet, trombone, violin [BUT: a cello is neuter!], organ, guitar, zither but also flute / recorder, so maybe Freud could have been mistaken at that point) or neuter (piano, accordion, bugle / cornet, cello, saxophone, banjo [even though it has a guitar-like neck!]), glockenspiel, Scheitholt etc.). Compared to that, I have found only very few examples for musical instruments that are regarded as being masculine in the German language. Most of them are compound words, and the genus is given by the last word component for example "Der Dudelsack" (bagpipe), because "Sack" is masculine.

Interesting: in German grammar, the word "chalumeau" is defined as being neuter. The corresponding word "Schalmei", which has come into the German language some centuries earlier, is defined as being feminine. So that example shows that words can change their genus over the years.

Now to make things even more complicated, the word "dulcimer" seems to be derivated from a mixed expression "dulce" (Latin) and "melos" (Greek). "melos" / "" in Greek is an irregular word (because it is neuter, but doesn't have the "typical" ending for neutral words ("-on"), but "-os", which in most cases is the ending for masculine words in Greek). Mmmh, that doesn't make things easier...

The problem is: there are "logical" arguments for all three alternatives.

Grammaticaly, I have been tending to use the masculine article so far.

But on the other hand, I can't deny that my hourglass dulcimer in fact has appealing curves and I think these emotions could persuade me to look at my dulcimer as being a "she" from now on

On the other hand again I am expecting to receive two McSpadden dulcimers in a few weeks. One of them is a "Ginger" model. Now I wonder: should I name the other one (a standard model) "Fred"? Questions upon questions

The question was not about culture, but about proper grammar. I merely put as humorous a spin on it as I could, since I know almost nothing of German, and had sufficient low grades in English to make that suspect, also! Adding something intelligent to the discussion was, shall we say, "Not my strong suit?" In a battle of wits, I'm unarmed!

Paul

Paul, you are certainly correct in a factual sense that the words for material objects in English have no gender. But cultural significance is different. Why do we give boats female names? Until about two years ago all hurricanes had female names. Why? When Chuck Berry sholds his guitar between his legs with the neck sticking out and dances toward the audience, he is celebrating it as a phallic object. And in scholarly circles, people who study semiotics (the study of signs) usually see round as feminine and straight as masculine. So objects can have certain cultural meanings even if grammatically those meanings make no sense. I think that is the case with dulcimers. Most people who name their dulcimers choose female names. That is not the same as the grammatical question about whether the word for dulcimer in German should be male or female, but it is fun to think about.

I don't think English is bound by the same rules that the German language uses. At least, I don't recall any of my teachers discussing the gender of manufactured objects. Plants have male and female parts, but I never heard of a guitar neck as a phallic object. What about the carrots and parsnips in a stew? I don't think naming dulcimers is conclusive evidence, as the person selecting the name may or may not consider gender. And how would we know? I can look under a puppy to find out, but how do you judge a clam, or an earthworm? I never name my instruments, but daughter Marianne did name one of them Chupacabra. http://www.princeton.edu/~accion/chupa.html This is still inconclusive, as Chupacabra may derive from Spanish, and follow different rules than English or German. And my dulcimer never ate no goat, unless it snuck out while I was asleep! I did eat goat in a restaurant once. Was tasty, too. Maybe I'm a Chupacabras? More importantly, why does spell check not accept "snuck?" Did I spell it wrong?

Paul

PS: What if Dulcimer doesn't follow English rules, either? Is it totally anarchistic? Oh, The HUMANITIES!

I am probably in the minority in that I consider all musical instruments to be its. No gender. I studied German in high school and college. I think there are other instruments using the feminine article, but I do not know what they are. It is just one of those recollections from many years ago.

One of my home made ones was named in the male gender immediately upon coming home to inspect the gluing of the sides to the end blocks. They'd slipped ... "Son of a ...............................

Just look at those curves! That's got to be a full-figured woman!

It is true that most people refer to their dulcimers as female. Interestingly, guitars are more ambivalent. The body is usually seen as representing the female body, but the neck is a phallic symbol.

In all seriousness, since dulcimer is not a German word, I don't think the "er" ending is relevant. What about " scheitholt" ? Is that word masculine or feminine? According to my German pocket dictionarythe word " Zither " is feminine. That seems as good a reason as any to consider the dulcimer feminine as well.

On a personal note, I name all my dulcimers. They all have female names except for a couple whose names are not sex-specific. One has dolphin soundholes and my daughter named it Splash. One has dragonfly insets in the soundholes and we call it Dragonfly. But the others have female names: Rosa, Lucinda, Liza, Queenie. Lucinda's a tomboy ( Wildfang ), though. And I have yet to name my baritone dulcimer, though the lower range might indicate a male voicing. I'm thinking Otis.

When talking about the mountain dulcimer with my friends in Germany, there's always a little uncertainty about the genus of our instrument.

In German you can't just use "the" or "a" as definite or undefinite article with a noun - you have to make clear whether the thing you talk about is male, female or neuter by using "der, die, das" or "ein, eine, ein".
Now the "Duden" dictionary (it is THE reference / authority for correct German) says it is female, so it should be "die Dulcimer".

On the other hand - in literature and in documents on the web (including the German wikipedia) you find many examples for the use of the male article, "der Dulcimer". The reason for that may be that in genuine German words the ending "-er" is almost always an ending for things (or animals and plants) considered to be male.

Now again, "dulcimer" is not a genuine German word, but descends from Greek and Latin words, and went a long way round from there to French, and from there into the English word pool (I'm not a linguist and that may not be accurate, but you understand what I mean). Confusing.

So my question is:

When you talk about dulcimers (or when you hold one and play it), do you regard it as a "he", "she" or "it"?

Sorry if this has been discussed here before. Hope my English is good enough to explain what I'm asking for.

I'm curious about your answers! :D

When I played in bands I had everything we played Memorized. Sometimes people would ask for something we didn't know all that well and out would come the sheet music. Now days I don't know if its form a head injury I had a few years ago, all the meds I now have to take or just age catching me to soon in life, I am only in my early 50's. But I seem to have trouble Memorize music. Maybe I just don't play enough. I have to keep the music close.

The fiddler in that clip is very, very good, but she ain't a BIT funny!

I'm not sure memorize is the word I would use. I memorize lyrics, but for me, music is more a matter of getting the feel right than copying each note of someone's version. What if they wrote it wrong? Our local newspaper has a list of corrections every day on page 2. I listen repeatedly until I get the song into my head, then I work out how I am going to play the song. Tab is a starting point, and a guide when I get lost, but I take detours on any journey. I can't read tab fast enough to play in a jam with it, so I let my ears take over.

Paul

I know what you are saying, Gayle. When i use a tab to learn a tune, it takes me a while to 'get' the tune, and I sometimes will refer back to the tab when i forget parts- Like you, I do sort of 'see' the tab numbers in my mind, but once i play the part many times then again it's the sound that helps me actually 'learn' the tune. Tabs can help me pick my way through a tune that's complex or unfamiliar to me. Learning tunes by ear is a skill that is improved the more you do it, even when you start with something as simple as Mary Had a Little Lamb. Now after many years I can pick up a tune through tab or by ear, but it's when you internalize a tune and play it your way from the heart (no matter how slowly or simply) that it becomes your own. I'm sure we all feel that way.

Mandy said:

Wowzers! You call knowing 75 tunes a smaller number. I would be thrilled to be able to really know that many songs.

I could memorize tab, but listening to tons of version of it being played helps me much more than any tab ever could.

Wowzers! You call knowing 75 tunes a smaller number. I would be thrilled to be able to really know that many songs.

I totally agree with your thoughts here. I think of it in the same way. Memorizing any monkey could do (hey wait a sec am I calling myself a monkey? hmm not sure). But really getting intimate with and knowing a tune is different IMO. I could memorize tab, but listening to tons of version of it being played helps me much more than any tab ever could.

Strumelia said:

I don't think of it as memorizing a tune. I think of it as knowing a tune. Once i listen to a tune many times, and then play it many times, either alone or with others...that's when I know the tune. I might still make an occasional mistake or lapse, but I'll know it's a wrong note immediately and I'll hear in my head what it was supposed to be.

I learn tunes through several methods- sometimes sheet music, sometimes TAB, sometimes a recording, sometimes from other people playing it live with me so I can learn it. But no matter what method i use to 'catch' the tune, once I know it well I won't need to look at paper anymore.

That said, if time passes I might need a memory jog as Robin said, but usually I can pick the tune back up pretty quickly at that point, because I once knew it under my fingers.

I'm all for really knowing a smaller number of tunes, rather than half-knowing a whole bunch. I usually work on a current repertoire of about 75 tunes, putting other stuff on the back burner for a while. I don't try to 'keep knowing' everything I've ever known how to play well, and when i go back to stuff i knew in the past I often need to refresh it for a while. I've read that the great fiddler Tommy Jarrell only had a repertoire of less than 50 fiddle tunes that he played wonderfully over the years.

I don't think of it as memorizing a tune. I think of it as knowing a tune. Once i listen to a tune many times, and then play it many times, either alone or with others...that's when I know the tune. I might still make an occasional mistake or lapse, but I'll know it's a wrong note immediately and I'll hear in my head what it was supposed to be.

I learn tunes through several methods- sometimes sheet music, sometimes TAB, sometimes a recording, sometimes from other people playing it live with me so I can learn it. But no matter what method i use to 'catch' the tune, once I know it well I won't need to look at paper anymore.

That said, if time passes I might need a memory jog as Robin said, but usually I can pick the tune back up pretty quickly at that point, because I once knew it under my fingers.

I'm all for really knowing a smaller number of tunes, rather than half-knowing a whole bunch. I usually work on a current repertoire of about 75 tunes, putting other stuff on the back burner for a while. I don't try to 'keep knowing' everything I've ever known how to play well, and when i go back to stuff i knew in the past I often need to refresh it for a while. I've read that the great fiddler Tommy Jarrell only had a repertoire of less than 50 fiddle tunes that he played wonderfully over the years.

Memorize, memorize, memorize. Except in an orchestral setting, where, as Robin points out, the maestro is telling the players how to "feel" the music, IMHO having paper on stage while performing is tacky. Others disagree with me; but that's OK.

It also, in part depends on how long the piece is, too. Memorizing a major concerto or opera or whatever - say The Planets Symphony -- is not realistic. But with dulcimer we're mostly playing repetitions of a verse and chorus.

I think its possible to have a memorized repertoire of over a hundred songs. I know I have more than a hundred songs that I can play with little or no prodding. I do keep a cheat sheet around with the first few measures of over a hundred songs on it, so I can remember how a tune starts when I'm hearing all sorts of other music around me at a jam or open mic. Again it depends on the nature and complexity of the tunes. I play mostly folk tunes with a verse and chorus; Robin plays more complex fiddle tunes.

One thing I forgot to mention was that memorising a tune for performance is not the same as longer term remembering a tune. I have memorised perhaps 100 tunes that I have recored or performed without music - but I'd be hard pressed to 'remember' 10 of them at present without some sort of memory jog to get me going. That memory jog could be written music or hearing the tune. Most of those tunes that I once 'memorised' for a performance would require some work to get back to that standard again.

So I wouldn't get too hung up on not 'remembering' tunes. Most musicians 'by ear'repertiore is made up of the 20 or so tunes they are currently regularly playing.

Gayle,

What Robin said! I feel I'm just "practicing" a piece until it's memorized. Then, and only then, can I work on it to try and "fine tune" the arrangement and make the song mine. I find some songs are easy to memorize and others are more difficult. As an example, I memorized "Nonesuch" in less than a week, however, I've been working on the "Farewell Pavane" now for about 2 to 3 weeks and still it's not coming together in my mind. I thought I had the Abbots Bromley Horn Dance memorized and ready to go; now I can't remember it at all. Oh well! I agree with everything you both have said.

Hi Gayle,

Certainly memorising your music will improve your performance of it in the long run as it frees up mental capacity to allow you to focus on the tone and feel of the piece. Lets take this top level professional concert as an example.

The orchestra members are using the music- the conductor is doing a lot of the 'feel' and enterpretation 'work' for them. The conductor and soloist themselves know the piece intimately and work without the sheetmusic, and this frees up their capacity to put real feeling into the performance.

Basically, reading the music is taking up brain space in the moment that you could be using for listening and adapting. It takes a lot of work to memorise a piece of music but as you have found it can allow you to improve your performance.

Robin

Wow. I can't imagine what it would be like to play an instrument containing such a history and years of hymns in it's wood.

what a great way to recycle the wood.

Here's a post I put on our local dulcimer group about a new mountain dulcimer from old boards from a century old church

http://athensdulcimerclub.wordpress.com/2012/09/22/grady-makes-a-new-mountain-dulcimer-from-old-boards-from-a-century-old-church/

Here's another dulcimer that another feller in our group made a week or so ago for his wife http://athensdulcimerclub.wordpress.com/2012/09/13/jerry-todd-builds-a-mountain-dulcimer-for-louise/

I knew that, but I had to locate better advice. Here's some:

Paul

You can put pepper spray in one of the pockets, just in case of Bear trouble. Don't spray against the wind.

Paul

The pants leg is useless without some sort of cushioning inside it. Hiking is always accompanied by such things as steep or wet slippery ground, partially buried rocks and tree roots, loose gravel and small branches. Tripping is a lot easier than we always think. You need pants large enough to allow for some type of cushioning inside. Foam can be purchased in sheets at fabric stores, and cut out to fit your instrument. Or, buy a package of bubble wrap. It comes in a roll, I get it at the local Drug Store, but I think other stores and shipping stores carry it as well. If you need larger pants than your size, you can cut out the inseam of both legs, and sew them together to make one tapered bag. While you're sewing, make some straps and sew them to the bag to attach it to your backpack. Plastic trash bags don't last long when walking through bushes, even without thorns. Twigs and such have a habit of tearing the bags apart. I tried using doubled plastic trash bags for my sleeping bag once, and it lasted one day.You might want a layer of cloth between the bubble wrap and the dulcimer, in case the varnish is sensitive to the plastic. You won't know until it's too late. Use an old pillow case for this, or light weight old pants. Put the trash bag inside the cloth bag, or use some type of oilcloth to make the bag, rather than old pants. A yard or two of oilcloth and some strap material from the fabric store, an old pillow case,and a package of bubble wrap to me is all you really need. Put the instrument in the pillow case, wrap it in the bubble wrap and trim off the excess. Then make a bag big enough to fit, with wiggle room to let you push the wrapped dulcimer into the bag.

Paul

Got a pair of Sunday pants ( holy, holy...)? Take the leg without a hole and cut it of at the crotch end. Sew shut along the cuff. Turne the edges over at the other end and sew a tube about an inch wide. Run a bootlace through the tube as a drawstring. Stitch a rope carry strap from end to end. Viola! Cheap gig bag.

Oh, enjoy your trip, Andrew. I also have a stick dulcimer....they are great for hiking.

Regarding the bear, take a banjo to throw at the bear...a "sacrifice" so to speak, to save yourself and your stick dulcimer. (Just kidding...I play banjo myself, so I'm entitled to make fun of it.) Take plastic bags to protect your instruments and use sturdy cases. Maybe some pepper spray .

Jan, I am coming in late to this discussion of your dulcimer, but if you want to know more about your particular instrument, Howard Rugg, over at www.EverythingDulcimer.com can tell you all about it. He and his brother along with Jackel made your dulcimer. I do not know if Howard is on here at FOTMD, but he does check in at ED occasionally. You might try asking about your dulcimer in the "History of Dulcimers and Songs" thread.

Ken

post pictures

Tuned to DAAA, you are tuned for the Key of D. The D scale starts at the 3rd fret of the melody strings, which are most likely two strings very close together. These are fretted either with fingers, or with a noter, and used as one string. Try the scale from that point, and you will find that the correct notes are all in their places. Traditionally, the other two strings were left open as drones. They provide the harmony. I can't say for sure why the scale was not begun at it's root, but it actually works out to our advantage that it is done in this way. Many songs require us to play some notes below and some above the 1st note of our scale. Placing the root at the end of the fret board would require us to find some notes on another string. As your dulcimer is tuned, you would need to go to the 4th string for those notes.Placing the D closer to the center of the fret board gives us room to go both up and down from the D. This is one of the most common tunings, and a fine place to start learning.

Paul

Yep - made like that. The 6+ fret is an innovation of 1960s builder Howie Mitchell, who wrote the first, or one of the first how-to books on dulcimer building. The true diatonic scale does not include that half-step.

Personally, I refuse to have a dulcimer with a 6+ fret, but then I'm an uncontrite modal folker and hard-core traditional player! You don't need the 6+ fret if you're willing play in DAA, and tune to DAd only for the handful of true Mixolydian Mode tunes we commonly play. Most tunes tabbed in DAd are not Mixolydian. They are Ionian mode tunes tabbed in DAd so that folks don't have to re-tune from DAd to DAA to play them.

Another option is to tune that dulcimer to Ddd also called Bagpipe tuning. That way you can use DAd tab (but not for chords, as the middle drone is d not A.

If you're a dedicated DAd, Chord-Melody player, you can have the 6+ and 13+ frets added, or you could sell/trade it for a dulcimer which has the 6+ fret.

As a Personal Chef I do pretty special things to veggies...

Jan - Sure wish I could trade veggies for a dulcimer!

I believe what you're referring to is what we normally refer to as the 6+ fret, not the 7th fret. Many older dulcimers were built without that fret, back when people weren't stuck on playing everything in DAd.

Take a look at the pictures of the traditional diatonic fretboard and "added" fret fretboard in my article for new players called I Just Got A Dulcimer, Now What? It's here: http://mountaindulcimer.ning.com/profiles/blogs/i-just-got-a-dulcimer-now-what just to make sure we're talking abut the same thing... Then tell us which of those two fretboards your new/old dulcimer has.

BTW - Howard Rugg is a member here and comes around periodically. If you send him a PM I'll bet he can give you lots of details about your instrument.

Any reasonably competent luthier (including most of the builders here) can add the 6+ and/or 13+ fret. I've seen prices ranging from $10 to $50 per fret.

More likely it is missing the 6 1/2 fret, which is a fret put in more frequently after the 1960's. It's an option, not a defect.

Your dulcimer is probably pure traditionally/diatonically fretted.

But to be sure, we'll need to see a picture first!

Not confused, just relating to, andintegratingthe info.

If you play in dulcimer jams, you may find most songs are played in D. If you go to jams with fiddle or banjo players, you will find that most songs are played in specific keys. As said above, these usually are dictated by where the tune falls easily on the fiddle, or in some cases, on the banjo. Bluegrass players tend to use the same keys as OT players, though a few keys that seldom are used in OT jams also come up. Song circles are more likely to have a wider variety of keys, as many players change the keys to suit their own vocal range. This can cause a lot of re tuning, as each person in the circle chooses the song & key in turn. I tend to take more than one instrument to song circles. Sunday I found myself using F several times, as there were a few ukulele players there. F is a common uke key. Not one I usually use on guitar or banjo, but we adapt with a capo. I don't think I ever tuned a dulcimer to F. I capoed the guitar for one song, and retuned the banjo for a couple. I didn't have a uke or dulcimer with me Sunday. I've seen a few harmonica players with a bag or box full of different harps. Seems even a chromatic harmonica still favors one or two keys, and doesn't do so well outside of those two.

Rock jams are very conscious of keys, as most players seem to believe in capturing the exact arrangement they heard on the radio, down to the last note of the solos. I never felt compelled to work that hard at learning a song, myself Are you fully confused now? Adapt to the jams you go to, but make sure you enjoy yourself.

Paul

Skip don't feel bad...you are not alone in that aspect. Sometimes information runs out of my brain too, like a sieve!

Thank you folks. I've never bothered much with music until way after I retired. It's kind of like being a kid again with a neat [cool?], new toy [music] that I'm playing with, learning how it's put together and why it's used in a particular way. With the help of folks like y'all I've learned a whole lot. Sometimes it doesn't stay with me or takes awhile to sink in though.

Excellent post Strel

Skip, as explained, you really need to make up your mind if you're wanting to play on one string or three.
3 strings uses DAD mainly and it's up to you to make the appropriate chords by fingering. This is non modal tuning.
1 string uses the drones to make the chords for you,so retuning is a necessity. This is modal tuning.

Melody doesn't really use the sort of full TAB you have, but is more likely to be just a fret order, most people seem to play by ear anyway. The thing that's most important here is knowing the Home Fret(which fret the tune ends on)

There are only four Home Frets in regular use ( 0,1,3 and 4), so what you are asking for is four lists of tunes based on these frets.
As you say, this sort of info is scattered far and wide.
I used to keep lists like this but gave up after about 200, the problem with this sort of thing is that the majority of tunes can be played from more than one Home Fret, so any lists you make will be full of duplicate entries in differing lists. It's further complicated if you have a 6+, this essentially gives you a second diatonic fretboard supperimposed on the original and extends the number of Home Frets available, making it possible to have some tunes that can be played from all four of the Home Frets.

You'll more likely find it of use to have just one list of tunes giving the modes they can be played in.

john p